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Post by gorship on Aug 8, 2013 17:53:00 GMT 3
Look ; Let me start by saying I like Mr. Miano. He evangelizes and does a lot of great work - there is no denying that. However, poor arguments like this are why Theological discussions need to happen more. I would agree here with Mr. Miano that Children have an inherited Sin nature that they are born into - Most definitley, But I reject the view that im assuming Mr. Miano holds which would be the Calvinist "Total Depravity" ; Mr. Miano as I dont believe that God finds it good to allow a child to be born into this world and to then damn them to hell if it should perish. I Believe we are responsible for our own sin. Am I not living in reality? Perhaps we should unpack our theology and take it to the 'reductio ad absurdum' to see where it leads. As this post then is stating I do not live in reality because I cant see in my Bible where God finds it good to allow children to go to hell without a chance. Our views on theology have consequences and we must stop arguing from our gut reaction and check all of our reasoning to the BibleI posted this in general as I am not taking the time to refute "total depravity" and explain my position but rather, but rather this is a plea that arguments like these need to stop.
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Post by Dr James Ach on Aug 8, 2013 22:04:53 GMT 3
The problem with the Calvinists is that they use deceitful means to attempt to persuade people to Calvinism by using what others generally understand to be total depravity (mans natural bent towards corruption and evil actions) with what they REALLY mean by total depravity, viz, total inability. When a Calvinist speaks of total depravity, he really means that man in his lost state has no ability at all to respond in faith to the gospel without being regenerated first and THEN being made to believe. That is a description of total inability. But because they tie that to total depravity, they accuse others of rejecting total depravity if they do not also agree with total inability. It causes the opponent to accept the Calvinist view of total depravity by default because unless I accept the view that the murder of a child by a serial killer proves both depravity AND inability, I am rejecting total depravity altogether.
It is a very dishonest argument because the Calvinist never presents the view of depravity as they truly understand it to an unsuspecting listener.
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